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1ofus
Posts:103
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| 11/16/2006 5:53 PM |
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To keep it in one place - this is what I have earlier put into Comments on Home page.
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As I now look at the Chapter titles a gnawing question appears - why so meek? What is this obsession with 'We Can ..'? If we accept that this is a new concept and that we are not speaking yet to converted, should we not be clear about what is possible and project it in a positive way? I suggest, as the next iteration to start with WE ARE ... |
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1ofus
Posts:103
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| 11/16/2006 5:56 PM |
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Second Comment re Challenge 1 - from Home page:
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QUOTE- Can A Community Write A Book? How do we define the overall theme? How will the book be organized? ENDQUOTE
May I suggest that the first challenge reads: Why did A Community Write this Book? How did the community who wrote the book get together to become We? How did We define the overall theme? What book structure emerged as the result? |
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1ofus
Posts:103
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| 11/16/2006 5:56 PM |
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| doing it |
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psteinbuch
Posts:2
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| 11/17/2006 10:44 AM |
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After reading chapter one I noticed that there was no mention of consequences of the availability of internet information. I may be on the wrong track and if so let me know. I do however feel that we should address the fact that when gathering information from the internet (as opposed to a reputable encyclopedia, with a staff of researchers)we may be vulnerable to obtaining and believing inaccurate or incomplete information, Moreover as we research, retrieve, share and disseminate information in the "community" there have been and will be potential occurences of plagarism and associated liabilitites. I would like a chapter which addresses these type of issues and balances the excitement with some practical realities. If you agree I would be delighted to contribute in this regard. By way of backgroundI am a business professor and see how the students of today have a difficult time discerning publically available from plagarism. Please let me know your thoughts.
Regards,
Pear Steinbuch, PhD |
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joe_flum
Posts:151
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| 11/19/2006 4:29 PM |
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Pear,
Why don't you explore this idea of "open knowledge vs plagarism" in "Challenge 3:How Will Communities Develop Products?". The challenge has a theme on "Intellectual property rights" and I'm sure you're insights would be most valuable.
cheers,
joe |
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JeanH
Posts:6
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| 11/19/2006 6:46 PM |
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| Keep of Light and supten have good points re Chapter 1. Chapter 1 should be the first part of the book, not an introduction. Perhaps we could begin with an outline? Outlines are good. And perhaps the outline could reflect a less traditional book. I've been in international business for 43 years and there is very little today that resembles times past. Incidentally, I am from Washington DC at the moment. I love the idea of a book that reflects today's business community. And this approach is perfect for it, but first we need an outline. How about putting an outline out there and then we'll react to that? |
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JeanH
Posts:6
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| 11/19/2006 6:50 PM |
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| What do you mean, We are...? |
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JeanH
Posts:6
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| 11/19/2006 6:52 PM |
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| To write a book, no matter how clever and new, do we not need to remember that others (hopefully many others) will have to understand it or it will be of no value. This piece seems to be unusally difficult and I'm wondering why. How do we move towards beginning? |
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joe_flum
Posts:151
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| 11/19/2006 7:00 PM |
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Jean,
There is currently a lively debate throughout this forum regarding just how much structure we (and I do mean everyone here) want to see at this stage in the project.
Since it's obvious that some people are more into structure than others, why don't you start a separate thread in the Chapter 1, forum, that will work towards defining a proposal for an outline.
Only until recently, the book was presented as an outline, and the general consensus was that the structure was too confining. Since the project right now is only really a collection of ideas, many members felt that we needed something more open, at least in the presentation of the wiki.
I hope that you will start the ball rolling on this and get some proposals, I know that Lilly (1ofus) has made a proposal for the structure of the book. Right now I can't remember the thread, but I'll look for it and post the link here for your reference.
cheers,
joe |
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JeanH
Posts:6
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| 11/19/2006 7:04 PM |
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| Thanks Joe. I've been watching some of the debate, but when they go off into other areas I get lost. I appreciate you sending me where to find them. I'll keep at it... |
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Firehose
Posts:7
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| 11/22/2006 3:21 PM |
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Mountains demand climbing. So the question ‘Can a community write a book?’ demands some answer. My response is first, get some perspective.
‘A book’ is a single physical object with definite size, shape, color, focus, …. ‘A community’ is more than one person, with all the qualities that that implies.
If we think of writing a book as a production process, then for most books there is a one-to-one (1:1) relation between an author and a book. For a community (implying many, perhaps thousands of authors) to write a book implies a many-to-one (M:1) relations between the authors and the book. This is a challenge of immense proportions.
Consider some things which communities have produced without much direction or coordination: civilization, society, languages and markets. None of these four have definite size, shape, color, focus, etc. (Maybe markets have much more focus than the others.) These ‘results’ or ‘products’ span vast space, time, social conventions, … from the efforts of many working in parallel, in different times and places, sometimes for same goals, at other times against each other, almost always driven by the need to survive.
Clearly, in writing a single book, such scattered efforts will not do.
Let’s take another tack: What makes any ‘book’ worth reading or worth listening to? Homer’s Ilyad and Odyssey have been read and listened to for a long time. Each describes what particular humans (Achilles, Hector, Helen, etc) and groups (Achaens, Trojans, etc) did. They also describe how they dealt with each other, with friends, enemies and the gods, and why they did what they did. Although their technology was primitive compared to ours, applying what they had judiciously was important in winning.
Homer’s works were not ‘how to’ do things—with technology and get results. Although, at some subtle and perhaps higher level, they are ‘how not to’ deal with peoples and gods if one wants to sleep well at night.
So, for a start, we have two challenges: (1) What—writing a book that is worth reading, and (2) How—getting a cast of thousands to write it and still retain some unity, clarity and coherence.
A third possibility comes to mind: perhaps the result is less important than the fact that thousands are trying to do what has not been done before. (Encyclopedias and the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) are not comparable for many reasons) The participation is the thing: the medium is the message?
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jm04469
Posts:18
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| 11/24/2006 9:20 AM |
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For this book to become wildly successful, the community has to discuss why folks write in the first place. Wikipedia is wildly popular because not only the writers are contributing for free but the consumers can also read for free.
In this situation, we are asking the supply side of the house to be free yet not requiring others to also forgo any of their revenues making the value proposition of contribution less appealing to some... |
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1ofus
Posts:103
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| 11/24/2006 7:44 PM |
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A very important point re symmetry. So, can we work out how can all involved here be interested in doing it for 'free' at the point of use?
Note that I have put a rider 'at the point of use'. For instance, publishers pay for specific costs of publishing and we can not expect the business to subsidise this book specifically. However, if it is possible to work out some 'quid pro quo' for them, then the publication could be 'free'.
Interesting point and worth considering wider - Joe, link? |
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joe_flum
Posts:151
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| 11/25/2006 1:26 PM |
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As I understand it, the publisher requires some sort of revenue stream to cover the actual costs of distribution, promotion and the actual printing. The proceeds or profits of the book will then be going to charity. I think, that if this book is going to actually enter into the book stores that it will need to be sold. What we can do is offer sufficient alternatives online that will allow for content to be downloaded or read online for free.
Since this is such a huge topic for the publishing world right now (they don't want to face the same thing that happened in the music industry), I think we should consider how exactly free versions can differ from printed versions? How can an interactive medium change the presentation and interaction with the book? How can we expand on the book idea so that publishers have a clear role (or is this necessary)?
Lilly, not sure what link you refer to in "- Joe, link?". |
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1ofus
Posts:103
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| 11/25/2006 4:06 PM |
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Joe, re link - you seem to have th whole this Forum landscape in your head and the ability to put posts / link them to places where they most naturally fit. I was not sure this was the best place for this discussion.
LIlly |
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joe_flum
Posts:151
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| 11/25/2006 8:33 PM |
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Ok lilly gotcha re. the link. Well at the base of this current discussion I would identify the themes as being primarily around the ideas of "Revenue models" and "Profit Sharing", of which the discussion is best suited to "Challenge 5: Will Communities Determine Price Points?".
While the challenge title may be misleading, the themes (in Challenge 5) which are fit best with this topic are:
1.1 Profit Sharing
1.5 When free is the price
For a more legal perspective, I would consider developing the idea as part of "Challenge 3: How Will Communities Develop Products?", which includes a theme on:
1.4 Intellectual property rights and the effects of distributed production
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joe_flum
Posts:151
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| 11/25/2006 9:21 PM |
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Sorry in link form:
Challenge 3 -> Chapter 3: Chapter 3. We Can Make It
http://www.wearesmarter.org/communitytools/discussthebook/tabid/80/view/topics/forumid/15/Default.aspx
Challenge 5 -> Chapter 5. We Can Put A Price On It
http://www.wearesmarter.org/communitytools/discussthebook/tabid/80/view/topics/forumid/17/Default.aspx |
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1ofus
Posts:103
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| 11/29/2006 9:45 PM |
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Joe,
I think we are hitting here the limits of linear technology employed! Where is hypertext?
I also really need a picture picture here to be able to SEE how the whole is developing. We also need ability to easily jump around.
This system just does not do it for me as it stands.
Lilly |
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joe_flum
Posts:151
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| 11/29/2006 10:08 PM |
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Lilly, can you send me mail to
joe at restatemedia.com
I'd like to send you a mail if that's okay.
cheers,
joe |
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BigPoppa
Posts:1
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| 11/30/2006 4:17 PM |
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I just began Chap. 1 and no I'm wondering if there's a bookmark function so I can get back to where I was.
Thanks,
TF |
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